IKO Forex Limited - Ikofx.com

[Hoang Long]

Official discussion thread for IKOFX (http://digitalcashpalace.com/out/ikofx)at Digital Cash Palace.

- Users can ask questions, make suggestions to improve the service, share stories (no spamming/advertising).
- Brokers employees may participate in topics by answering questions. Promote and posting announcement.

Please be honest and fair with the broker being discussed.

Read/submit reviews and ratings for IKOFX (http://digitalcashpalace.com/forex-brokers/ikofx-reviews/)

[IKOFX]

IKOFX Trade & Drive Lucky Draw Winner

The ultimate prizes, the amazing moments of truth is here! With great honor, IKOFX is pleased to announce the winner list for Trade & Drive Contest (http://ikofx.com/en/trade_and_win_winner.php). IKOFX is always trying its best to serves its valued guests from all around the world, the announcement of this contest serves as a good milestone in the life long journey. IKOFX wishes congratulation to the Malaysian winners and we hope to see you all at the coming IKOFX Grand Annual Dinner for the prize giving ceremony!


http://digitalcashpalace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/flash-banner-1.jpg (http://ikofx.com/en/trade_and_win_winner.php)



We would like to show our sincerest gratitude to all traders & business partners whom had supported this event and most importantly the loyalty to accompany us going through the time since the beginning of IKOFX.


Grand Prize Winner (NISSAN 370Z):
Muhammad Hassan Mustafa-Noman (20881334)

1st prize (Ford Fiesta):
Ahmad Afizul Abdullah (20890584)

2nd prize (SONY 55" LED TV):
Wilson Nomad (20881096)

3rd prize (Alienware laptop):
Ting Hie Ing (20883693)

Consolation prize (IPad2 16GB 3G+WIFI):
Ahmad B Said (2008877)
Mohd Safe'e Bin Mohd Noor (20904068)
Refi Fahrurazi (20915495)
Rudy Rosadi (20916830)
Ng Wee Nguan (20903312)

[IKOFX]

IKOFX Grand Annual Dinner

The most discussed event of all times has arrived!

http://digitalcashpalace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/anual-dinner.jpg (http://ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_grand_annual_dinner.php)

IKO Forex Limited has decided to make its celebration in Saujana Hotel, Shah Alam where the perfect mixture of cozy environment with endless joy & excited will be bought to its valued guests & business partners. IKOFX is aiming at giving a perfect escapade weekend for all its guests with the 160 acres of lush tropical gardens, superior hospitality and of course a series of surprises from the dinner; making the dinner an event that one should not be missed.

The 3 hours dinner starts at 8pm at 21 April 2012, at the heart of Shah Alam where one can run away from the hustle and bustle of the city at the same time reaching interesting POI with just minutes away only.

Prize giving ceremony, lucky draw, live performances and even experience enriching short seminar will be given to the attendees on that night. Other than that, display units of giveaway prize car will be displayed at the venue to demonstrate the features, and design of the prizes. What’s more? Officials of IKOFX will be announcing a short preview of new features & launches for the coming months of 2012.

Wonders what will IKOFX be planning for you? Come join us for the celebration!

So what are you waiting for? Book your seat seat now! (http://ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_grand_annual_dinner.php)

[nikotien]

IKOfx broker is a broker who has had a good trade regulations. broker bonus offered is also very good. I never use the services of these brokers in the trade. and I have not had any problems in the execution of trades. to finance is also great, because I use a local bank transfer. This is a good broker in my opinion.

[IKOFX]

IKOFX Demo Blast

As you has been informed, April is the last for IKOFX Demo Blast (http://ikofx.com/en/IKO_demo_blast.php) - the monthly contest dedicated to all Forex Traders of IKOFX with Demo Accounts, took place. While waiting for final result from the contest manager, please let me update final result as when the market close:

1st Place - TobohLautFx (4366221) - 1000 USD
2nd Place - Lastpips (4366162) - 500 USD
3rd Place - SumazauFx (4361409) - 300 USD
4th Place - Purti FX (4361408) - 100 USD
5th Place - QSR 3762 (4361419) - 100 USD

It is not final result as scalpers who traded below 2 minutes will be removed and those who traded multiple accounts in the same month were being removed as well.

IKOFX sincerely thanks to all traders who supported the contest. The information about new contest will be disclosed soon.

[yudistirarizki]

Well Forex trading is full of risk so investor should be fully aware of risk assessment before investing. big earn money = you must invest yeah..!!

[IKOFX]

IKOFX Grand Annual Dinner - The most anticipated event of all time!

The most anticipated event of all time has come—IKOFX Grand Annual Dinner! Imagine yourself in a dim-light ballroom with elegance decorations, beautiful table settings with flowers, friendly & pretty ushers, relaxing jazz & pop genre musical live performance from famous singers and not to mentioned the endless surprises from the inspiring new launches, exciting seminars, attractive prizes from lucky draw & prize giving ceremony... these are the ambiance which one shall experience from IKOFX Grand Annual Dinner.

The grand celebration was held on 21 April 2012 which was set footed at The Saujana Hotel; 160 acres of lush tropical gardens which was made out of the elements of coziness, friendly people and a relaxed environment which is the perfect escapade weekend for stressful, busy traders from all around the world. As the attended audience exceeded the expected amount of attendance the grand celebration night was concluded with another overwhelmed positive responses from the public! Attended audience from neighboring countries had even made their effort to join in the celebration! The unexpected passionate responses from the public serves as great inspiration & encouragement for all teams of IKOFX to work out for the extra miles to serve its valued clients even better in the near future. There will be more & more surprises to be given away to all clients as the teams are ready to exceed the expectation of the clients thanks to the great support from the public in this event!

IKOFX hereby wishes a big thank you to all those whom had shown significant support to this event especially to all the related business partners & traders from all around the world!

Thank you very much for staying together with us for all these years, IKOFX will be looking forward of serving all of you with better quality of services and surprises!

IKOFX — The Ideal Place for Forex Trading!

Below are the images for the night, enjoy!

(IKOFX Grand Annual Dinner Gallery) (http://ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_grand_annual_dinner_gallery.php)

[ProTrader]

I don't have active account with this broker but I do follow it and it has many events and promotions. IKOFX Demo Blast is what I like the most since I can training and have chance to win free money to trade at the same time. Sadly, I never win and now no chance to win anymore since the contest is no longer available.

I never contact live support so I don't know how it is but their forum supporter is really friendly and fast at reply my PM.

[IKOFX]

IKOFX Demo Blast - April's Trading Contest Winners

We are glad to announce winners of Demo Blast April's Trading contest, the final season of IKOFX monthly trading contest on demo account. The 1st five traders with the highest accumulated gaining in trading their designated demo account of April shall win the real money prizes that will be deposited in their live trading account as follow:

1st Place - QSR 3762 (4361419) - 1000 USD
2nd Place - vkhah (4366334) - 500 USD
3rd Place - apen (4365552) - 300 USD
4th Place - Asep Kurniawan (4362631) - 100 USD
5th Place - tjoagozali (4362633) - 100 USD

Follow rules of the contest, Scalping within 2 minutes will not be taken account into the results. We would like to express our deepest gratitude for all that had supported this contest and we hope to see you around soon!

Make sure to stay tune with IKOFX, The Ideal Place for Forex Trading!

[IKOFX]

Promotion: IKOFX Wali Band Frenzy 2012

Ladies & gentlemen! IKOFX is proudly present to you Wali Band Live 2012 (http://ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_waliband_frenzy.php) in Malaysia! This concert is a joint venture project by both IBs from Malaysia & Indonesia and coordinated by IKOFX. The boys of Wali Band are ready to deliver more excitement to all IKOFX valued customers! A limited amount of customers with specific conditions will be selected for the exclusive seating for the coming grand concert which sponsored by IKOFX. So, what are you waiting for? Trade now and enjoy your Wali Band concert with exclusive privileges with IKOFX, your ideal place for Forex trading! Please stay tune on IKOFX official website, official blogs & Facebook fans page for more details on the lucky draw results.

General Conditions



IKOFX Wali Band Frenzy is a special event where a specific amount of traders which fulfilled certain requirements will be able to get their chances to win Wali Band concert tickets. This special event is applicable to all new and existing live accounts.
IKOFX Wali Band Frenzy is open only for SEA region participants.
The campaign period starts from July 01, 2012 (00:00 GMT) until September 10, 2012 (23.59 GMT).
Ticket distribution is solely based on first-come-first-serve basis, only a limited amount of tickets will be giveaway to IKOFX traders.


Winner Determination & Prizes

1. Traders are able to win their tickets from IKOFX Wali Band Frenzy 2012 with the following conditions:


With each deposit of $300 followed by 100 traded lots in a single specific account; trader is entitled to claim 1 Superior Class Concert Ticket (MT1).
With each deposit of $700 followed by 300 traded lots in a single specific account; trader is entitled to claim 1 Premier Class Concert Ticket (MT3).
With each deposit of $1,500 followed by 450 traded lots in a single specific account; trader is entitled to claim 1 VIP Class Concert Ticket.

*Each deposit and trading lot requirements are applied to a single specific account, deposit accumulation and separated deposit will not be taken into account.

2. Participants are allowed to make multiple claims of several tickets once they had reached the specific requirements. For instance:
Mr. Walter are entitled to claims 2 concert tickets with the $600 he deposited in one shot, and followed by 200 traded lots.

3. All interested participants are required to write in email to account@ikofx.com once they had fulfilled the conditions. All respective conditions must be fulfilled in order win the respective tickets.

4. IKOFX reserves the rights to verify the legitimacy of the participation of the owner of the account, as well as the identities of the owner.

5. All prizes must be claimed within the particular period where the results were released, prizes which failed to be claimed by the respective contestants will be invalidated. Any arguments & appeal will not be entertained.

Read more: http://ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_waliband_frenzy.php

[IKOFX]

IKOFX Affiliate Bonanza 2012 – Louis Vuitton Party

IKOFX never fails to cherish and treasure our valued clients. We always want to let them feel how important they are to us and that we appreciate much their performance in promoting IKOFX to the world.

So we have come up with another exciting and full of surprises event that will make everybody happy and jump to their feet for they can win Louis Vuitton prizes. IKOFX newest promotion, the Affiliate Bonanza Louis Vuitton Party just started and will run for one and a half month to give everybody a longer time and chance to enjoy and win exciting prizes. IKOFX wishes to reward its most valued clients by showing appreciation and gratitude to everyone.

Promo starts July 1, 2012 and will end on August 15, 2012. Great prizes to be given away like Louis Vuitton Key Chains, Hand Bags, and Louis Vuitton Luggage Bags. Hurry and wait no more, this is your chance to win exciting prizes from Louis Vuitton. More Referrals, more chances of winning only here at IKOFX – The Ideal Place for FOREX Trading!!!

Read more: IKOFX Affiliate Bonanza 2012- LV Party (http://www.ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_affiliate_bonaza_2012_LV_PARTY.php?affref=20 915273)

[Hoang Long]

http://ikofx.com/en/Image/banner/seminar_banner.jpg (http://ikofx.com/en/index.php?affref=20915273)

IKOFX Infinite Wealth Seminar 2012

The secrets of getting unlimited wealth with online investments will be revealed once again by IKOLINK in conjunction with IKO Forex Limited. The seminar will be taken place in East Malaysia, aiming at delivering the secrets & techniques of obtaining infinite wealth at zero cost for all that is initiative to make their first move to grab the knowledge. Hosted by knowledgeable & experienced investment Gurus at guiding investor of doing investment with the right way and most importantly the right time, this seminar will definitely be another great event of all times!

Hesitate no more, come and grab your seat while it lasts! Feel free to contact seminar committees at support@ikofx.com

Infinite Wealth Knowledge Sharing only available at IKOFX — Your Ideal Place for Forex Trading!

[budado]

I only have 20 dollars investments in here 5 dollars plus 15 dollars bonus. Anyway so far I have five trades in here. I have thee successful trade in my first day earning 5 cents, 5 cents and 4 cent. I have loses also 4 cents loses and I have one breakeven. So in short today just in two hours of trading I have profit of 14 cents and lose of 4 cents and total of 5 trades. My earning today is 10 cents. that's half percent of 20 dollars.

[Hoang Long]

IKOFX Affiliate Bonanza 2012- LV Party (http://ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_affiliate_bonaza_2012_LV_PARTY.php)
IKOFX never fails to cherish and treasure our valued clients. IKOFX newest promotion, the Affiliate Bonanza Louis Vuitton Party just started and will run for one and a half month to give everybody a longer time and chance to enjoy and win exciting prizes. Promo started July 1, 2012 and will end on August 15, 2012. Great prizes to be given away like Louis Vuitton Key Chains, Hand Bags, and Louis Vuitton Luggage Bags. Hurry and wait no more, this is your chance to win exciting prizes from Louis Vuitton.

IKOFX Wali Band Frenzy 2012 (http://ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_waliband_frenzy.php)
The campaign period starts from July 01, 2012 (00:00 GMT) until September 10, 2012 (23.59 GMT). This concert is a joint venture project by both IBs from Malaysia & Indonesia and coordinated by IKOFX. The boys of Wali Band are ready to deliver more excitement to all IKOFX valued customers! Please stay tune on IKOFX official website, official blogs & Facebook fans page for more details on the lucky draw results.

IKOFX Infinite Wealth Seminar 2012 (http://ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_infinite_wealth_seminar_2012.php)

11 August 2012 at Kota Kinabalu, Sabah and 12 August 2012 at Kuching Sarawak. The seminar will be taken place in East Malaysia, aiming at delivering the secrets & techniques of obtaining infinite wealth at zero cost for all that is initiative to make their first move to grab the knowledge. Hosted by knowledgeable & experienced investment Gurus at guiding investor of doing investment with the right way and most importantly the right time, this seminar will definitely be another great event of all times! Join us today!

[budado]

I'm excited to reach 300 trades that I do scalping but I guess its really not good to do scalping with just having 20 dollars. I reach a point in which I only have 19 dollars left but now I'm back with 21 dollars in here. I'm hoping to reach 23 dollars before the end of the month. I also shift from scalping to swing strategy. So in short its going to take me long time to reach 300 trades in here.

[Hoang Long]

Infinite Wealth 2012 IKOLINK & IKOFX

11 August 2012 Kota Kinabalu, Sabah
12 August 2012 Kuching Sarawak


The seminar that will acticate the wealth gaining power in you!
Getting Rich is no longer a dream!
Join Us Now!

Hesitate no more, come and grab your seat while it lasts! Feel free to contact seminar committees at support@ikofx.com
Infinite Wealth Knowledge Sharing only available at IKOFX — Your Ideal Place for Forex Trading!

[budado]

I notice that theirs some list in IKO forex that you can withdraw your funds directly to your local bank but when I check its just email address. I'm just wondering how can I also join the site and accept payments from IKO forex members. I see some opportunity in here but same time I don't know how to take advantage of this. I guess the best thing I can do right now is to promote this site and earn from those who going to join under me.

[ProTrader]

I love LV products and the new promotion of ikofx is really excited me. The ideal for the contest is really good but it hard to archive for me since I am not really good promoter. :P

[Hoang Long]

IKOFX Ramadan Special Credit Bonus

Promotion period: 2nd August - 21st August 2012.

This is yet another surprise from IKOFX to all its customers! It’s the world first Ramadan Special Credit Bonus that will give the extra edge for traders to gain profit from their favorite pairs. The special deposit bonus is available for all existing or new clients and it is up to 20% of extra bonus from each of your deposit during this Holy month! So what are you waiting for? Go deposit with IKOFX and be rewarded in this Ramadan!

All these only available on IKOFX — Your Ideal Place for FOREX Trading!

*All Rewards of IKOFX Ramadan Special Comes With Terms & Conditions.

IKOFX Ramadan Special Credit Bonus Distribution Table:



Each New Deposit of
Entitled Credit Bonus (% of Deposit)


$500 - $1,499
5%


$1,500 - $2,999
8%


$3,000 - $4,999
12%


$5,000 - $9,999
15%


$10,000 and more
20%



For registration details & terms and conditions, please refer to http://ikofx.com/en/ramadan_special_credit_bonus.php (http://ikofx.com/en/ramadan_special_credit_bonus.php?affref=20915273)

[Hoang Long]

IKOFX Infinite Wealth Seminar

Another very successful seminar has just been shared by IKOLINK in cooperation with IKO Forex Limited (http://ikofx.com/en/index.php?affref=20915273). The secrets of success with unlimited wealth in online investments had been shown to all the participants during the seminar. A participant had also given a chance to play a forecasting game so that everybody will witness how to make a good forecasting and to know the best time to place a position in the market.

Everyone was taught to be a good investor. Once you stepped out of the room, you can say to yourself that you now belong to those who knew the secrets of becoming successful in online investments.

We thank all the participants for giving time to listen and learn the secrets of success. Surely the knowledge we have shared to you will be used as tool in acquiring infinite wealth.

Truly, IKOFX is your Ideal Place for Forex Trading!!!

[budado]

I'm happy to see that I already have 31.30 dollars in here with my 30 dollars capital and not that. My balance reaches 40 dollars plus already last friday. That's for me is a good sign. I'm hoping that before the end of the month I can reach 45 to 50 dollars balance and has equity of 35 to 40 dollars.

[Hoang Long]

Affiliate Bonanza 2012 (http://www.ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_affiliate_bonaza_2012_LV_PARTY.php) - The newest promotion by IKOFX with great prizes to be given away like Louis Vuitton Key Chains, Hand Bags, and Louis Vuitton Luggage Bags, has been finished on August 15, 2012. How many referrals did you manage to have within promotion period? Final announcement and winners will be announced soon. Stay tuned for updates!

IKOFX Wali Band Frenzy (http://www.ikofx.com/en/IKOFX_waliband_frenzy.php) - a special event where a specific amount of traders which fulfilled certain requirements will be able to get their chances to win Wali Band concert tickets. The campaign is running until September 10, 2012. Start trading today and take part in this contest!

IKOFX never fails to cherish its clients. More good news will be coming soon.

IKOFX -The Ideal Place for Forex Trading!!!

[budado]

Its a good opportunity for me to trade in here. I now using .02 lot size as the minimum lot size. So far the lot size is holding. I'm using less volatile pair and that is usd/cad. Although the spread in here is 4 pips compare to 3 pips in eur/usd this pair is not as volatile as eur/usd. So lets see how this going to work for me.

[riddick09]

Where did your trading capital here come from? Or if they have bonus like other brokers. Or maybe, you deposited some funds. Yes, I think its very common that EURUSD has the smallest spread since its the most volatile pair in the market. And expect we can see advantage in this market.

[Hoang Long]

IKOFX - Credit Card Funding Method Available Now

Dear Valued Customer,

Good news for all traders who seeks for alternative options in depositing fund into their trading account. Depositing your fund has never been this quick and safe with IKOFX Credit Card funding options! Our credit card funding options supported all major Credit Cards from Visa, MasterCard, JCB, Dinners Club and China Union Pay. Customers from China are preferable to use our alternative payment gateway specially for credit cards issued within China. For all the premium quality services, no transaction fees and commissions will be charged by IKOFX and withdrawal can be done via Bank Wire. You will only charged 5% of system fees by our payment provider upon each deposit transaction.

So, what are your waiting for? Deposit your fund now with this new funding options!

All the only available with IKOFX --- Your Ideal Place for FOREX Trading!

Kind Regards,
IKO Forex Limited.

[budado]

For the last the days now I don't have a hit trade. But I still keep my cool. its better to have no trade than to have a losing trade. that's what I learn in the last eight months that I'm trading. Beside right now I'm still up.
Last july I have 27 cents loss. Last august I have 5.91 dollars profit. so For me its a good start this month of september. I'm hoping that I can earn the same amount this month. 6 to 10 dollars again. If I'm going to play my card right I can earn 30% a month profit each month.

[budado]

I almost got MC in here. I'm happy that I added 15 more dollars in here. My total money in here right now is 45 dollars plus earnings is now 57.33 dollars. So my balance right now in here is 57.33 dollars but my free margin is only 12.25 dollars left. I'm hoping that usd/cad can recover as right now I have 0.19 lot size buy open in here and its really eating my free margin right now. As today usd/cad is down to its lowest level in months and I don't expect this right now. I'm hoping that I can see bounce of usd/cad soon.

[BlopTheTrader]

any new promo from IKO FX?

[riddick09]

Is there a way for us to have bonus in our trading account so I can also experience how to trade in this broker. As I have seen it is in our forum but just interested but looks like we will have to deposit on our own funds so it will be a problem for me.

[budado]

I think not. Unless you have a referrer who going to give you some trading money but in condition that you going to trade and make lets say 100 lot size trade. I do like to trade in here and use this as my alternative broker site. So far I have invested 60 dollars in here and my balance is now 78 dollars. So in short my account expand or has additional 18 dollars.

[riddick09]

I guess that's quite difficult tasks if you just start. Though, I'm not good also with the referrals or finding referrals since I don't think I know people who wants to be in forex trading and will invest huge amount. Well, I will pass for the meantime until I found good way to have trading capital here.

[budado]

That's true and forex trading either we like it or not if we want to make profit in here we need to think long term goal. Meaning we need to trade continuously. I see potential in forex trading when I started to earn in one account. Now I have six active accounts and I'm going to continue expanding and have many accounts in many broker sites as much as possible to earn good profit and that's why I like IKOfx. this is my 5th broker site that I have invested.

[budado]

Just request payments for my 5 dollars profit.
Date: 11/2/2012 4:51 AM
Batch: 117516896
From Account: U8559187 (ikofx limited)
Amount: $5.00
Memo: N/A

Thank you.

[rexway]

budado ,this is a very good progress as for me i just signup with this program some days ago but I have not started using their services what I wanted to ask is if the site is making instant payment or how long can one get paid here.

[budado]

rexway
Payments is not instant but it does not take more than two hours also. So for me the waiting period is manageable. But same time since its my first withdrawals don't know if my second withdrawals will be instant. Usually in a broker site the first request of payments some times take time since they still need to check every thing before they pay.

[budado]

I'm already trading two pairs in here usd/cad and eur/usd. Right now I return or trying to return to 0.01 lot size and not 0.02 lot size. As I really have hard time earning with bigger lot size and my free margin is some how hard to control with bigger lot size. Hope to reach 100 balance in two to three months.

[budado]

I already added another pairs. Now I'm trading with aud/usd, usd/cad and eur/usd. I hope I can add some customize indicators like the one that in instaforex in which we can see how many position and pairs we have. Because the more I open new position and add more pairs the harder for me to monitor. Anyway I already have 90 dollars balance in here. I guess I don't need to wait for two to three months after all. I just need one month and I'm sure this month of december I will going to reach 100 balance before the end of the month.

[budado]

Now I'm trading eur/jpy, aud/usd, usd/cad and eur/usd. I'm happy that I'm trading and earning good in here. I already reach 117 dollars capital in here. my problem is that I open too many position right now and my free margin almost hit 100% only. I did manage to make its back to 122%. But I'm still not comfortable. I hope its going to reach 200% or more free margin.

[budado]

I just decided to invest 55 dollars in here. I hope I can earn good amount of money in here. Although my free margin is still down to 189%. I'm already comfortable with that. I just hope to earn good amount trading eur/jpy as I got hit by this pair and I really need to trade for three months just to breakeven in this pair.

[indieover]

You have to wait that long just to break even. I am just wondering this is a good broker also as you do not tell any bad experience with this one and that you are still trading on this one. So i would like to try out this one also.

[budado]

The price range in here is different from other forex broker site. They say that they are using different provider. Although I really don't understand why since as far as I know all ECN is using the same provider and all ECN has the same price range. But that's okay. I'm already in here so I will going to continue trading.

[budado]

I just request 10 dollars payments from this site. I hope I can earn good amount of money in here. I guess its not iko fault if I'm not earning that good in here but rather its how I trade in here. I hope I can make good income in here still in the long run.

[budado]

I guess right now I'm the only one who has investments in here. I still do trade and this month I cashout total of 20 dollars. But I still not reach bep. I still have about 90 dollars deposits in here. I hope that next month I can earn good amount of money so that I can request payments again.

[budado]

I got a good run in here. Now I'm trying to request payments in here again and this time its another 20 dollars. And that means I earn 40 dollars total in here this month or my investments will be down to 70 dollars only. Not bad at all since I'm maintaining balance of 200 dollars in here.

[budado]

Its seems I'm the only one still active in this broker site. I decided to keep my account in here. Although ironically I only trade 0.01 lot size and not 0.02 lot size required for my referral to earn rebates in here. But I really can't handle .02 lot size right now. So far I earn good if I trade using 0.01 lot size only.